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  • #16
    Just some short feedback from me now (will make a more extensive post in a couple days):

    I have Void and think he is a little too strong
    • revived curio health is slightly too high (15-25% would be more than enough)
    • magnify lasts too long which makes the damage way too high in the last turns (my personal max 120k in the last turn with magnify+boletus)
    • more to come

    Void has a really cool skills and awesome synergy but some skills are just slightly too much.

    If this means power creep is starting again I guess im fine with it but I doubt that months were spent to balance this game just to start power creep again with an old curio.

    Sidenote: I used the old void in CW/FW over my gambit. most of the time he was able to clear the first enemy team by himself. He wasnt awesome but not as bad as some made him look.


    • #17
      I am currently trying to win some fight in the top 15 Pvp
      the event is light fire and electric boosted 30% my team is F2 ignitar, F1 Flamoth and F1 Ampaca..
      my fire and light journal are both 49% legend 10% and myth 2%

      I can barely beat Void.. Ampaca is supposed to be the most effective curio against him, it counters its swap and can scout for him at the start of the battle to avoid revive.. yet despite that I have the single most efficient curio BOOSTED in this event, I keep getting my *** handed to me because of a curio that I already beat coming back to life with half health and mana!
      And I am doing literally everything I can to prevent that from happening..
      It's not like I complain about 7 revival in one match, just one is already awful..
      Last edited by Mjoern; July 25th, 2016, 03:25 AM.


      • D0ug
        D0ug commented
        Editing a comment
        As a void user I have to say Ampaca is not the best defense for him. Void will simply mute Ampaca and swap away. Scorpio or Boletus would be a better choice in my opinion. Scorpio I have found to be the most difficult since he negates all healing/reviving. As far as killing void I run core and just try my best to bench kill him.

    • #18
      Wow I just look over Void's skills!!


      I mean seriously!

      ow can anyone say it's not completely OP?

      It has been made clear by those nearly two years now of CQ that the Devs are allergic to synergy..

      with a few exceptions (ignitar, twins, kernal, qilinmoth) Devs have always been trying to evade synergy at all costs.

      I mean it's the third time they actually manage to make a good curio without just buffing the number randomly..

      And I actually like those three times.. Ignitar, Kernal and now Void have the best skill-sets in the game..
      But the problem is not that they are good, the problem is that the other curios are not..

      Void isn't just like Flamoth/lolli/gambit or like the twins or like the new twins -jenite and sinite- for that matter..
      He isn't just OP..

      he is more like Ignitar when he first was introduced.. he is the game.. he is the meta.. he is everywhere.

      I don't want to dissuade the devs to do other like him, I want all curios to be like that in their own way..

      But still there is one thing that isn't in relation to how strong he is that is completely stupid and annoying.. Why are all the heals either life steal so based on damage stats or percent of health so based on the health stat?



      • Zombie ExGirlfriend
        Editing a comment
        Synergy? Synergy in a team is what you make it and there's plenty of options. Don't just throw curios together and hope for the best. It takes a bit of deep thinking and looking at an overall skill strategy of what works together. I love my team and it's extremely multi-purpose on offense, regardless of what element is boosted. I only start swapping out curios when the boosted stats go beyond 100%.

    • #19
      This is a joke and still no comment from the devs, today I had to defeat a Jenite 3 times and a Dragos 2 times and obviously lost as my curio did not have the energy to defeat 6 curios. everytime you take out a revived curio void comes back in and stuns you for 2 turns which gives it enough time to revive another curio and we keep going round in circles.

      Seriously do any of you devs test the curios before you release them to the community. I know Littlefury hasn't as she mentioned she had not tested it out yet an wanted people to face her in live pvp etc. How about you gather a group of top players or even the mods and let them test out the new curio in a closed server as obviously the devs know nothing about the game and you need actual advice from people who play the game everyday.


      • #20
        After a few days Im going to have to slightly agree on a couple points. He is quite powerful and very tough to beat if you dont have one but instead of nerfing him I think it would be way more fun to develop more curios with similar thought put into skill sets. He has made it so much more fun to play lately. Its actually strategy instead of just element and damage stats. I can understand why people without him are annoyed but if there were others similar to his strategy minded skillset instead of just heavy damage or heavy healing it would be quite fun. I just finished what seemed like a 10 minute void on void pvp live match and it was quite fun... would like to see more like him.


        • #21
          10 minute battle was fun? I guess we have different hobbies... But I'm glad you're finally seeing the light. Void is just stupid. I don't even enjoy doing pvp anymore....


          • D0ug
            D0ug commented
            Editing a comment
            Its only a 10 minute battle in pvp live. Not any other battle unless you count SA...

        • #22
          I wanted to make sure I made an honest opinion so I did quite a few games against void in pvp.

          - my team was most of the time Scorpio (39,5k, 43% fire journal, with not a lot of enhancements but decent boosts for 3,3k damage total, 32,4k lolli with 50% physical journal, 45,4k razor with 43% water journal)
          - I faced void during dark boosted, water boosted and during fire boosted
          - Usually ended up around rank 200 in pvp but I went up to rank 60 during the pvp so I faced both strong and weak voids but not top 50 kind.
          - I do not own void myself but I'm trying not be biased
          - The highest # of revives by a single Void (f1) I faced was 11. Yes, reviving 11 times, so that's 14 curios (probably more if my curios didn't die by that time) I had to defeat, 14 mythics with 30k hp or more!!!! I'm sure others have faced even higher.

          My observations:

          Lolli and Razor can take down Void but need a bit of luck on the stuns/swaps to pull it off. This depended mostly on the other enemy curios. If they were high damage dealers (e.g. Hieron/Scorp) or could stun/swap (Hieron/Ampaca), it was very tough but I did manage to win a few times. Problem is that half the time you are just sitting there defending while Void heals back damage or revives curios which isn't fun.
          Against weaker teams (even with a strong Void or a 50% boosted Void) I managed to win about 60% of my fights but with severely damaged curios and those fights took a long time.

          Using Scorpio against a strong team, it was hard but I could still win about 1/3 of my fights. Against weaker teams this was about 90% but again, long and tedious fights. Mostly it was just spamming Sting and pray that the AI is stupid enough to play lesser/greater Qi for massive damage to the enemy team. Otherwise it was a long fight and waiting for the AI to make a stupid decison move-wise while timing my own for maximum damage to Void while avoiding (no pun intended) the other curios as much as possible. I tried to swap them around with Gustwing but this proved to be tough and a lower winrate than lolli/razor.

          My conclusions:

          - Void is very strong depending on how strong your other curios are. Once you enter top 200 ranks in pvp, most teams are strong and facing an enemy Void pretty much guarantees a loss unless I'm really lucky due to AI mistakes or good strategy on my part mixed with some luck.
          - I wouldn't call Void himself OP as he hardly does any damage. It's his synergy with a 3-curio team that makes him OP, as if teams consisted of just 1 curio, Void would be very easy to defeat. As some people in this thread mentioned already: it's not his stats or skillset that form the problem, but how they interact with existing curios (in this case, other mythics, especially those with stun/swap/silence capabilities).
          - Void controlled by a human player (i.e. live pvp) is pretty much impossible to defeat if the other 2 curios are decently levelled up mythics. At least the AI can make mistakes to take advantage of. Human players know when to try and stun/swap/revive.
          - Biggest problem of them all: new Void creates for battles that are NO FUN at all for those people who don't have him. Half the time you are defending and watching all your damage get healed back or all the killed curios come back. When you see that you deal no damage at all even with 40%+ journals, there is no fun involved and this is why Void needs to be rebalanced. Simply removing/lowering the stun chance to something like 10% would be great. Lowering the hp/mana that curios get revived with would be great too. Now, when I see a Void and it manages to revive more than 5 times in a single battle, I simply quit, even though I might have a very small chance of winning. Again, this is no fun at all and utterly boring, just sitting there doing nothing and watching your curios slowly die.

          Side note: I faced someone with 2 Voids and a Gambit. Even with Sting, I didn't kill a curio over 50 turns. Whenever I killed the Gambit and 1 of the Voids, the other one comes in, uses Frighten, Dark Life, swaps to the newly revived Void, again it's Frighten, Dark Life, and Gambit is alive again and we're back to square one. That team took more than 50 turns to kill my curios but I just couldn't put a dent in them as everything got revived anyway.

          I like the role of Void and how he plays, but his ability to revive coupled with massive amounts of stun creates for a very unfun experience and an extreme advantage in SA/FW/CW to people who have him over others. I seriously hope you look into it and find a way to rebalance him to make it fun for everyone (both void and non-void players) while keeping his current role. I think his skillset feels very unique and cool but it just synergises way too good in a 3 curio team.

          Thx for reading, I know it's a long post


          • #23
            Zombie, imagine if Skoll had high HP and more healing potential along with the damage reduction that are everywhere on his skills and some stun or silence for utility?
            Skoll would then be a good Tank with skills that work well together, that's what I meant by synergy..

            le'ts not speak too much of team synergy, teams consist of only three curios, I know you can do some pretty neat stuff especially now that the best curio of the game is a support but individual strength is extremely important! Why do you think no one uses dragos at high rank, reign is the skill with highest damage in the game..

            No one does because the skill set is a joke..

            If you don't change team before the mark of the 100% boost, it just means either you have 3 absurdly strong curio that works well with one another or that anything else you have is trash compared to them .. or both those options..


            • #24
              Void is a curio that has the best skills utility in the game, also a strong invidual skill potential, the cd on revive skill is very low, add to the fact all of his skills, swaps incative curios in, which guarented you not to lose a turn by swaping inactive curios. but also keep in mind void is the first of his kind, first full support and i wouldnt classify void as 1st or 2nd gen curios, he was remade and released as an updated version, so i would say he is now at the same generation as sinite/jenite.

              void is making really fun pvp for those that have him, it opens so many strategies in the game, i have had a 15 min live pvp because we both had void, it was an intense fight and i enjoyed it, but after all this curio needs a slight adujusting.

              it seems from what i gathered and experienced that the main concern is the revive skill, a longer cd would tone down the many complaints i see.
              Last edited by Agath_x; July 28th, 2016, 01:25 PM.


              • Boyd
                Boyd commented
                Editing a comment
                and the heal to be less as well. it should be more like 20% not 40%

                But Sinite and Jenite were last generation so why would it be that ? If Void was current generation then he would be rubbish still just like Bob,Merika,Zephy and Xotol

              • Mjoern
                Mjoern commented
                Editing a comment
                No Boyd.. not 20%.. 20% is like Whammy.. if boosted 100% and crit it's aa full heal..

                it shouldn't be a % of health.. it should use the healing stat.. like ~200 to ~400

            • #25
              Hey gang, thanks for the great conversation you all are having.

              On the whole it seems like people are enjoying Void, but with some fairly legitimate concerns. Obviously we wanted Void to feel like a true support class character. And though there have been others (BobSloth being a support/tank) Void is the first that really hit the mark, perhaps a little too well.

              Given all the feedback I'll be giving him a slight nerf. The goal here is to just bring him in line a little tiny bit and not over do it. Please keep in mind that we want to get it right, so he might go through a couple rounds of adjustments.

              Here's what we're thinking:

              Dark Life: This is one of Voids bread and butter skills but it looks like it's a little too strong. Based on feedback and observation here are the fixes we're looking at.

              Cooldown 5->6
              Health Restored 40% Max HP -> 30% Max HP

              There is potential issue with the amount of mana Void is restoring. This mostly shows up when you have multiple Voids. But for the time being let's try the above adjustments and see how that plays out.

              Greater Qi
              Given the general revive power of Void the additional free revive on this ability is getting a slight nerf.

              Revive Chance 40% -> 25%
              There was also a bug on the 1st level of the skill, the cooldown was 3 instead of 4 like the other levels.

              Magnify is Voids main damage ability. But it is showing an unexpected behavior. To understand what's happening first lets detail out what the buff is doing (mechanically). Magnify places a buff on a curio that lasts 1 turn. The buff has a "trigger" on "duration end" that creates a new 1 round buff. This new buff is stronger than the last and has it's own trigger of duration end to create another buff. This happens 4 times (5 rounds in all counting the first). Now given our targeting system on the back end when it creates a new buff it targets the active Curio. We have no way currently to target the unit which has the buff on it. That's some pretty involved logic and adding it would be a massive undertaking as the targeting system touches all aspects of the battle code. In development we call features like that "high risk", because you have to go over the code and the game with a fine tooth comb to make sure you haven't missed something. (Little somethings like that could cause a massive bug.)

              What this means is that if you swap out the Curio with the magnify buff on it, when the buff creates a new version of itself it will always target the active Curio. Which is to say: The buff will move from benched Curios to the active Curio. This is outside of the original design intention as one of the ways to deal with this buff was to force swap out the Curio that was carrying it.

              Now this isn't a terrible behavior, actually it's kind of cool. But it does make Magnify even more powerful than it already was (which was arguably too powerful).

              Given all that there are two approaches to take with the ability. 1) Reduce its duration by one turn. 2) Reduce its turn over turn scaling. Personally I'm leaning toward the second.

              Here's what I'm thinking: Base bonus 50% +50%/turn for 5 turns (250% max) -> Base bonus 75% damage, +25% per turn for 5 turns (175% max).

              OK... that's my thoughts as a Dev. Feel free to comment as you see fit.

              Now, as a player, here's my take on Void. (outside of sooo strong)

              Yesterday I took out a team to see if I could handle the Voidemic. I built a team of 2 BobSloths and a Xolotl. All thing being equal I did pretty well and was able to climb to the #1 position (still early in the PvP round but...)

              To handle Void I wanted to be able to damage him while he's on the bench as well as clear out magnify anytime it popped up. I used BobSloth's "Big Wave" to clear out Magnify. And another BobSloths had "Your World" which can target benched Curios and "Fluffy Clouds" a light AOE w/ Silence. I brought in Xolotl for "Ash Cloud" which is a strong AoE DoT. And Xolotl could generally get that off and then burn down a Scorpio before he fell over himself. From there it was a patient tactical game of shutting down the Void. I had to use my skill rotations and swaps perfectly, there was little margin for error, but it was very doable. (and my journal is horrible) Occasionally Void got off a lucky revive, or revived someone that got off a lucky shot, or I messed up my rotation and ran Bob out of mana. It took skill, patience, the right Curio team, and a touch of luck (just a little). But that felt pretty right to me, and the challenge was fun.

              I then went on to live PvP DiamondOwl like a dozen times and got crushed every single one of them... but that's another story. (and my lame journal didn't help)
              Last edited by Space Ape; July 28th, 2016, 08:28 PM.


              • #26
                Sounds good hopefully it will help with the rapid revives, what about the stuns do you not think they are a bit over the top ?

                I like the 2nd option also for the magnify fix

                Also I have tried using bob and targeting void on the bench with your world but its not strong enough, its all well and good you using your f3 bobsloth but not everyone has that option.

                I spoke with chaos about the new curios and he said none of them are good unless they are F2,F3 and he said Marika is just garbage all together. I will take his word seeing as that guy knows what he is talking about

                Is this change coming out in todays update ?
                Last edited by Boyd; July 28th, 2016, 08:54 PM.


                • Space Ape
                  Space Ape commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Chaos is pretty savvy, no lie. I'll look deeper at Merika in the coming week. I played with him some and found that he was doing ok. He's no Scorpio, but Scorpio damage is insanely strong. I found I could use Merika to assassinate a Curio. BUuuuuut... still worth a gander.

                  So on Bob, I agree that "Your World" is a little on the weak side. I didn't have that armed on my F3 Curio, just my normal alt. It helped to have the 2 heals, that allowed for the long haul of putting Your World down a couple times on the back line. But having gotten a good look at BobSloth the past few days I think I have some ideas on how to trim off some fat on him and make him a little more competitive.

                  On the stuns... these are a % chance to hit but I agree that they can be insanely powerful if they go off together. I think I'd like to play with the proc chances on them before we pull them entirely. Being annoying is part of Voids kit as well as his ability to get on and off the bench with ease. But I will give them a once over and see if they don't need a little tweak.
                  Last edited by Space Ape; July 29th, 2016, 12:10 AM. Reason: Didn't mention stuns.

                • Boyd
                  Boyd commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thats good to hear thanks for having a look at them. and ill see how void acts now with these changes before i make any more suggestions

              • #27
                I like the fixes but agree with Boyd on the stuns. Continuously being forced to defend isn't fun and void still retains his reviving capabilities after these suggested changes, so players can still stun => revive => swap + stun to keep the chain going on for a while.


                • #28
                  Sounds good to me. Cooldown on revive is fine. Greater Qi honestly I wished it didnt revive at all... Messes up my strategy. Magnify at 175 seems fair enough.


                  • Space Ape
                    Space Ape commented
                    Editing a comment
                    What messes up the strategy? The lack of mana in the revive?

                  • D0ug
                    D0ug commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Nothing to do with mana. I run two voids and in the last event core. I would silence, magnify to core, switch to second void then silence/magnify to core again. Usually takes out the whole team because Core was double magnified up to 350% at some points. However if core dies I would use silence/greater Qi till both voids were healed back up before raising core from the dead. When I'm ready to bring him back and the greater Qi does it at 10% its just not as good as the dark life at 40% I was about to use on him. Not the end of the world but I would then end up wasting mana using silence/greater Qi a few more times until core had enough health to fight.

                • #29
                  Maybe Greater QI should not revive at all ?


                  • #30
                    Maybe some people like it but I swap voids back and forth muting/healing and then when both voids are back up to full health I purposefully revive the third guy at 40% instead of 10%. Having him pop back in at 10% when I wanted to bring him back on the next turn at 40% is annoying.

                    slight edit: I'm guessing most people dont mind the random revive if they are running one void and have two dead team mates so its really only my personal preference here.
                    Last edited by D0ug; July 28th, 2016, 09:05 PM.


                    • Space Ape
                      Space Ape commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I'm debating if it doesn't need a little mana change with it. Like a +4-8 mana. Just something so that a Curio that is randomly revived isn't super naked, just mostly naked.
                      Last edited by Space Ape; July 29th, 2016, 12:15 AM.

                    • D0ug
                      D0ug commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Personally I dont think it needs more mana. I've only ran out of mana with a void team when I made a mistake and run void himself out of mana when he is the last player on my team. Then he's just a sitting duck. If I get low I usually just let one void die then bring him back with mana restored.